Duncan: Guess it went out with covered wagons and hoop skirts.
Amanda: You know, you won't let me change. You really expect me to steal, don't you?
Duncan: I expect sharks to bite, too. Don't take it personally.
0:43 Welcome to Highlander Rewatched! I'm one of your re-Watchers. I'm Keith!
0:47This is Eamon.
0:48 And this is Kyle!
0:49 Ke: And this is the podcast where each and every week we examine another facet of the wide, wonderful and weird Highlander franchise!
1:00 Before we get into this week's episode, we wanted to read some of the reader-mail of our last Question-of-the-week. And this question came from the episode The Darkness. Our question was: "What should the role of magic be in the Highlander universe?"
1:16 Eamon: Lucas Patterson says: I don't believe magic is useful in this universe. The fact that there are Immortals is enough. "It's a Kind of Magic", by Queen, is all the magic necessary.
1:25 Keith: I agree.
1:26 Eamon: Vince S writes: I think magic should only be used as mortals would use it. Secrets and stuff that other Immortals still might not know of. Example: We see magic, and don't know how they do it, should be the same for Immortals. They might be surprised by it, too.
1:42 Keith: Zach O writes: I feel that if there's magic in Highlander, it should only belong to Immortals, based on special manipulation of whatever energy gives them power, of which there are several examples in the series. However, I also feel that it should've been embraced fully, and given better-defined uses/limitations, or it shouldn't have been used at all. Supernatural beasts/abilities outside of Immortals wouldn't feel right in this setting. The eternal struggle of Immortals behind the scenes of the real world is part of what makes this series great. Adding in more random fantastic elements would take away from that realism.
2:14 Christina F writes: I have a hard time with the word "magic" in Highlander. I think of it as more mystical than magical. To me, it's things of a more spiritual nature than, say, flying on a broomstick, or using a wand or staff to cast spells. I would say that the "magic" in Highlander is more mystical because it comes from a source (no pun intended!) beyond human, but not unexplainable! Deity or nature being a possible explanation. I guess when I think of magic, I think of it being a separate thing that exists and helps a world to grow. This is probably influenced by things like Final Fantasy, and Robert Asprin, who defined magic as having its own source, like crystals, or lines that run through the world, similar to chakra. In order to use it, you have to know how to draw from that source of power, and you have that power inside you already. To me, mysticism would be power that flows from nature, the universe, or a creator, or a destroyer. Negative and positive. Buddha, (voodoo?) for instance. Therefore, the power that flows through them comes from something in line with the Earth itself, and not separate. You may not necessarily need to be trained to be able to have it, and use it. And everybody could potentially use a part of it if they learn to open their minds to something greater than themselves.
3:27 Keith: Thank you, Christina F! So, every week we do a question of the week, and if you have answers to those questions, write them at email@example.com or leave them on our Facebook page.
3:38 Keith: Today's episode is Episode 7, The Return of Amanda! This episode originally aired on Monday, November 8th, 1993. It was directed by Dennis Berry. We just saw him do the episode "An Eye For An Eye" which we all, I think, really liked a lot. **Eamon: Yeah!** And he's done some other ones, as well. The writer of this episode was Guy Mullaly.
3:57 Eamon: He worked on "Earth: Final Conflict".
4:01 Keith: Oh yeah! That's a good--**Yeah.** Wasn't that a... what's his name? Gene Roddenberry show?
4:06 Eamon: I don't know.
4:07 Keith: I think it--
4:08 Kyle: Was it?
4:09 Keith: I thought so... or am I thinking of a different Earth--
4:11 Eamon: I don't remember.
4:12 Keith: I think it was a show produced after he had died. That it was something he had an idea for.
4:17 Eamon: Is that the show where the guys have the weird heads? The big heads? Isn't there aliens--
4:23 Kyle: That's real life. That's our existence. *laughter*
4:27 Eamon: Okay. We have real big heads? **Kyle: Yeah.**
4:29 Keith: So--Kyle, the audio is a little different for you this week. Do you want to explain what's going on?
4:34 Kyle: Oh, yeah. I'm calling in from North Carolina. A friend of mine's getting married/bachelor party thing. It's very beautiful up here, but it is very far away from Highlander. *laughter*
4:46 Keith: Well, we are glad you got to join us for this very special episode.**Ea: Yes.
4:49 Kyle: Greetings from Asheville. *laughter*
4:53 Keith: This episode guest-stars Don S. Davis as Palance. He of course was General Hammond in Stargate: SG1, which is a great, great show, and he was fantastic in it! He was also Colonel Briggs in Twin Peaks. He's always an army guy. **Ea: Yeah.** He's the go-to, kind of uptight... I don't know.
5:14 Eamon: Uptown Girl?
5:15 Keith: Yup, that's it. **Yeah!** He also was Scully's dad! **Yeah.****Yeah.** Yeah. Which is good.
5:19 Kyle: He's got this sci-fi thing on lock.
5:21 Keith: Yeah, he does. Sadly, he has passed away. He died of... well, it's been a while, now. Eight years ago, now. But--
5:28 Kyle: He died during SG1, right?
5:30 Keith: Yeah, I think so. Because he's not in the last season, right? He gets replaced by one of the Bridges? Beau Bridges, I think replaces him?
5:38 Kyle: That's right. **Ea: Holy shit.
5:40 Keith: Yeah. Anyway.
5:41 Eamon: We also have that he was in Con Air and Cliffhanger.
5:43 Keith: Nice!
5:45 Eamon: Two excellent--perhaps--action movies. *laughter*
5:49 Kyle: Con Air, with Cyrus the Virus?
5:51 Eamon: That's right!
5:53: Keith: This episode also guest stars Michael Puttonin as Lev Arkin? He's the other goon guy. But he was Sherriff Miller on Smallville. **Oh!** Which was also kind of a small part that would pop up every once in a while, but... another one of those Canadian television regulars. **Ea: Interesting.** Also, according to IMDb, Dan Castellaneta is in this episode. That is FALSE!
6:16 Eamon: Wow! **Kyle: Wait, what?**
6:17 Keith: IMDb says he plays the professor in the flashbacks. **Ea: Oh! B--** It's a guy that kind of looks like him. **Yeah.** It's weird, and it's says it's uncredited. It's just not him. **Huh.** It's very weird. I don't know why--
6:31 Eamon: Are we sure it's not him?
6:32: Keith: Oh, I'm 100%. Because also IMDb gives credit to the correct person, as well! **Ea: Oh, okay!** It's really weird. But when I was doing my research for this episode--
6:40 Kyle: Double-booking it?
6:41 Keith: --what is going on? So, the episode description from IMDb for this gem is: Amanda shows up at the dojo with a suspicious offer of friendship. Then Duncan helps Amanda escape from [the] two attackers that she insists she doesn't know. In [a] flashback to 1930s Germany, Duncan is trying to help a scientist escape when Amanda attaches herself to him to get away from police chasing her. In modern day, Duncan tells Amanda about the Watchers but they discover the men chasing her are FBI.
7:10 Eamon: Great.
7:11 Keith: *laughs* That's a terrible description.
7:14 Kyle: *amused* Can we start getting these descriptions from an official source?
7:17 Keith: No!
7:21 Eamon: An official... "Source"? ** Oooh! ** Highlander... ** Oh god, oh no. Oh no!** Oh no is right!
7:30 Keith: Eamon and I watched The Source the other day, on DVD. It was a--
7:34 Eamon: That's the first time I've seen it. And it sadly won't be the last.
7:37 Keith: -- is not going to be the last! Because the next time you watch it, you'll have to take notes!
7:39 Eamon: Yeah. **Uh, anyway...**
7:42 Kyle: Oh. Oh boy. Thank you for reminding me. Luckily that's a problem two years from now?
7:46 Eamon: Yeah, hopefully. **Right!**
7:48 Keith: So, this episode opens with a flashback to 1936 in Berlin, and we're in a German cabaret club? **Ea: Yeah.** And Elizabeth Gracen is singing a sexy song-thing!
8:01 Eamon: She's doing her best Madeline Khan, this is Blazing Saddles, in Germany.
8:07 Keith: But this is really her singing, which is a nice touch! **That's nice!** Yeah, she does a great job! I think this is a fun opening to the episode...
8:14 Eamon: Yeah!
8:14 Keith: Although we'll find out later--There's a reveal that Amanda shows up, and it's kind of almost ruined by the fact that she's in this flashback. **Ea: Yeah...** That's the thing about the--
8:24 Kyle: You know, I did not think of that. That is a great point.
8:26 Eamon: Yeah, it is. That's a really good point.
8:28 Keith: Let's talk about this flashback first. So, she's singing this song, and it's kind of a fun opening, kind of a nice... I don't know how to put it. Just a nice little set piece. It's in the mood. But she goes over to this guy and I guess they have an exchange, he gives her these plates. Turns out to be counterfeit money plates. But these German thugs come in, and I guess they're looking for these things, too, and they end up killing this guy over it. And then they force her to sing for them, which is really creepy.
8:56 Eamon: The same song. One of the lyrics in her song, I just wanted to point out, was "Strut your stuff somewhere else, mac." **Keith: OOH!****Kyle: Oh!** Is that Duncan MACLeod? I don't know.
9:06 Keith: Inside reference, in the song! Nice! So then we cut to the dojo, and Mac and Richie are fencing!
9:14 Kyle: This looks like fun!
9:15 Keith: Yeah. This is a fun little scene! It kind of extends the training thing we were seeing earlier, which is cool, but then we--Eamon, tell us about the dialogue that we get!
9:24 Eamon: So it's all... He's like "Oh, your stamina's improved." And then Richie [says] "Yeah, I lasted for a few more seconds." And then Mac says "It'll come." *mad snickering*
9:38 Keith: Should we play this clip also, or-- *Ky: Oh God! Oh God!**
9:40 Eamon: Yeah, let's play it.
9:41 Duncan: Your stamina's improved.
Richie: Yeah. I lasted a whole few seconds more, that time.
Duncan: Don't worry. It'll come.
9:50 Keith: Ohhh, boy. **Eamon: Hohoh. **Kyle: Oooew. **Ea: Ew. **Keith: Yikes. **Kyle: Zeist! **Ea: ZEIST! **Kyle: That is--
9:59 Keith: So, then--
10:00 Kyle: That's amazing.
10:01 Keith: So then they get the Immortal buzz, and someone comes in wearing full fencing gear--
10:06 Ea: They come in from the LOBBY or something.
10:08 Kyle: Where did she get that?
10:12: Ea:Ke: Yeah. Yes.
10:13 Kyle: Does she just carry that around at all times, and see that they're doing gay fencing stuff, and decided to join in?
10:19 Ea: Sword-fighting, if you will. **10:20 Kyle: Is that what happened? Literally swash-buckling?
10:24 Keith: So, because this person is wearing the mask, we can't see who it is, so it's ominous and threatening. Even though they're just fencing with fencing swords, so it's not that threatening. So they end up fencing; Duncan wins, and unmasks this person, and bababum! it's Amanda!
10:36 Eamon: That's right.
10:38 Kyle: It's actually "The Return of Amanda!"
10:39 Keith: The return of Amanda!
10:40 Eamon: *sonorous* The return--
10:41 Kyle: The curse of the return of the creature's ghost! *laughter*
10:44 Keith: Uh, this... this is kind of spoiled by, I think, the flashback in the beginning, because we know Amanda's in this episode **Ea: Right!** And it's like: Oh, who could this Immortal be?" I mean, I guess it could whoever the villain of the week might be? But it's pretty obvious-- **Ea: probably Amanda.** Yeah. I feel like, in, I don't know if it's the next season they start doing this. They start doing cold opens, where they have a little teaser-scene before the credits. Which I think is really effective. And I feel like this would be a great cold open, then go into credits, and then maybe get to that flashback 1936 scene as just a way to kind of set the mood for the rest of the episode. But just the order this is edited together is kind of--a little anticlimactic. Is what this is. But, it's okay. Yeah, but good point about where she gets this fencing gear...
11:31 Eamon: Well, I want a blueprint of the gym--*laughter*--to see where the locker room is located.
11:36 Keith: I would assume it's upstairs. Because don't people yell from upstairs about the showers being broken? *multiple yeahs* Also, at some point she talks **Kyle: Yeah, that's got to be it.** about, she hasn't been to--has she been to her hotel room yet? I don't--so, if she didn't get changed--oh no, I think she has been to her hotel, because she said she booked it ahead of time. So, the other option is that she got dressed in fencing gear at her hotel and then walked-- *laughter*--walked the streets of Seacouver in the full getup--
12:02 Eamon: And a sword!
12:03 Keith: --and a sword! **Kyle: Yeah, a sword!** Or she, I guess, brought it in a bag and got dressed outside. Any way you slice it, this is crazy.
12:11 Eamon: Also, is she a member?
12:11 Kyle: Maybe she snuck in--maybe she snuck in, went to the locker room, got changed, snuck back out, and came in through the front door. *laughter*
12:19 Ea: Yeah, that's what she did. Yeah. Also--
12:23 Kyle: She's a cat burglar!
12:24 Eamon: That's true! That's very true. Also, is she a member of the gym? I mean, we know Charlie's is very exclusive.
12:31 Kyle: Well, I don't think the gym's open right now. **Okay.** Because they're the only two in there, right? **That's very true.** And isn't it a gendered gym? Are there no girls allowed?
12:39 Keith: That's a good question!
12:40 Eamon: Oh yeah. I don't think we have seen a lady in there.
12:43 Kyle: We're all about our Triple-X chromosomes state of the union, so...
12:47 Keith: So then we cut, and Amanda and Duncan are upstairs, and Duncan is trying to make Amanda some coffee, and this is amazing. *EaRight! And he's--
12:54 Kyle: For a guy who supposedly loves making coffee-- *laughter* -- he can NOT figure this out.
13:02 Eamon: No. He's really screwing it up, big time. It's like a weird espresso machine, I don't even think it's a coffee--
13:08 Yeah, he's "Oh God I hate this machine. I never got used to it in the first place. Coffee! I spilt it everywhere!"
13:13 Eamon: He's rambling. He's doing his best Elliott Gould impression.
13:20 Keith: And apparently this IS all improvised. This is not in the script. Which is good!
13:26 Kyle: Including--did they just say "Mac, give us thirty seconds about how you're bad at coffee!" Or did he organically fail to use this espresso machine? And he was like "Oh, it's the nineties! People don't get Italian coffee!" **Yeah, hahah.**
13:36 Keith: I kind of do like the idea that Immortals might be bad at certain--**Ea: Technological things?** --technology, although I think the coffee machine is not that hard.
13:47 Kyle: It's called a cappuccino, and you won't believe how much it costs! *laughter*
13:54 Eamon: But Mac has his master hacking. He doesn't have his master baristing...?
13:59 Keith: Yeah barista skills?
14:01 Eamon: I don't know.
14:01 Kyle: Is barista gendered? ((NO)) Is he a baristo?
14:03 Eamon: That's a good question! **Don't know!** I don't know, either.
14:06 Keith: Write us in!
14:08 Kyle: Write us in, Starbucks professionals!
14:11 Keith: So, it's been ages since they've seen each other, I guess. Although it's really only been a year.
14:13 Kyle: It's been a--she says it's been a year. It was last year.
14:18 Keith: Right. So then we get a flashback to last year's episode, **Ea: Yeah!** which was "The Lady and the Tiger."
14:25 Eamon: And this fl--they milk this fuckin' thing.
14:26 Kyle: The Lady and the Padding?
14:27 Eamon: The Lady and the Padding. *laughter* There's so many--they show the part where she's stealing the diamonds, their whole escape scene, the whole fight, and confrontation in the café, this is insane.
14:42 Keith: It's really long. So, I was curious about--again, maybe we should ask David Abramowitz next time we talk to him. We need to start a real, hard-core list about all our questions that we keep bringing up. I'm curious: Is this something writers do on purpose? Was this something based on the budget of this week's episode? That like, "We NEED to pad it," or is it something that gets kind of thrown in later. "Oh, well, we probably are a little short on time. Why don't we have a flashback?" And that length of flashback is indeterminate, because you don't need this flashback there at all, the episode could just move on. I'm wondering if they were short on footage. I'm just kind of curious how that works in the writing process. If it's built into the episode, or it comes later? I don't know!
15:23 Eamon: Well, the other thing is this is pre-Internet and like, mostly pre-Internet. I don't really know the timeline, exactly, but you know--
15:30 Kyle: Well all Duncan's hacking skills refute that theory.
15:33 Eamon: That's true, exactly. Uh, yeah. So, yeah I don't know. Maybe this is before... they wanted to clue the audience in on who this character is? I don't know.
15:40 Keith: That's another thing I was thinking about. They just show a heist, and then a sword-fight. Which I guess is exciting, but this episode is about their relationship. I would've rather seen flashbacks to their... their quips back and forth, and that tension that they have. Because that's the important character-thing we need to know. Not that she's a jewel-thief, really. I guess we need to know that she has a shady past. So, finally the stupid five-minute flashback is over. So, Amanda says the reason that she came back was she heard about Tess, and, I guess she just wants to bang. **Yeah.**
16:14 Kyle: She immediately goes for it, and Duncan's already "Well, I already banged one of my exes, I might as well do it again..." *laughter*
16:21: Keith: So they go back to Amanda's hotel. Duncan's rocking the leather vest, again.
16:25 Eamon: Which is awesome!
16:27 Keith: But Amanda's really upset that Duncan doesn't think she has changed her ways, and that was the clip we played at the top of the episode. **Ea: Right.** She's turned over a new leaf; so she says. But then we see inside Amanda's room, Don S. Davis and the other goon are in there rifling around looking for something--
16:43 Eamon: They're searching for something--
16:46 Keith: Something, yeah.
16:47 Eamon: But they're not really searching that hard. I wish they were wrecking the room, or turning it over. They just kind of look under a coaster, peek under the bed, and [say] "Well, I can't find anything."
16:58 Keith: So, we don't know who these guys are, and we don't know what they're looking for--
17:01 Eamon: We don't even really know they're in her room. We can assume it.
17:05 Keith: So, they bust out. Don S. Davis grabs Amanda and [demands] "Where are they?"
17:09 Eamon: Yeah! "Swear to me!"<--???
17:11 Keith: And he's threatening her, but Duncan saves the day and tackles General Briggs away. But then the other dude SHOOTS Duncan in the shoulder! **Yup!** Anyway, Duncan and Amanda go fleeing, and she says she has no idea what those guys are about; what they're looking for.
17:29 Eamon: They run up to the roof.
17:32 Kyle: One last note about this hotel room: I am almost positive I've stayed in a hotel room with that wallpaper. *laughter* And the trim at the top looks like alternating steaks, half of which are moldy!
17:44 Keith: HahahahWHAT?!
17:45 Eamon: Like steaks you eat?
17:47 Keith: Like a T-bone?
17:47 Kyle: Yeah, they look like straight-up T-bone steaks, but every other one is green and discolored. They're disgusting. It's the least appealing thing to look at when you're trying to go to sleep.
17:59 Eamon/Keith: Wow. Wow.
18:00 Ke: So you have some real insight on the scene.
18:01 Kyle: I got the inside track on this shit. That's got the same um... fuck. Never mind.*much laughter* What-ever!
18:11 Keith: So, they retreat to the roof, and they hide--in some vents, which is comical, I guess.
18:17 Eamon: In some air ducts or something. The general and his goon are "Well, let's check every floor!" What does THAT mean? **Right!**
18:24 Ea: When Duncan gets out of the vent, there's--It's a metal vent, there's a hatch-door. The sound effect they play when the door opens is used in EVERY TV show, and it--anytime I hear it, it drives me up the wall! It's this weird creaking EEEEEEE And every time I hear it, I get angry! Just because I hear it so much. Kind of a weird aside. Fully aside.
18:50 Keith: We cut, and we're in a park with a lot of ducks, and Duncan and Amanda are walking--
18:55 Kyle: Is that the joke? Is that the joke? They just got out of a duct and-- *laughter* and it's "Don't feed the ducks?" Is that what's going on here?
19:04 Eamon: I hope so.
19:05 Keith: Let's hope so! That's great!
19:07 Eamon: I just want to say something about this duct thing for a minute. *wheezing laughter* Amanda's looking at the ducks, and she [says] "Oh man, I wish I could be like those ducks." *laughter* "They don't have any worries, or fears." And, okay--
19:21 Kyle: You think she just meant have a corkscrew penis?
19:24: Eamon: Yeah, I wish I had a corkscrew penis! And that every time I had sex with another duck it was rape! *laughter* **Keith: Jesus Christ!** That's true! Look it up! Biiiiiology! But, uh... Okay, so... I can manage that ducks don't worry about things, sure. I'm pretty sure ducks feel fear. Right?
19:46 Kyle: They also get eaten by a lot of different things. Including humans! **Ea: Like predators?**
19:52 Keith: Yeah, duck is low on the list of animals I'd prefer to be.
19:54 Eamon: Yeah. Oh, man, I wish I was a duck! **Keith: Scrooge McDuck, maybe.**
19:56 Kyle: Duck. Yeah, I wish I was Scrooge McDuck.
20:00 Eamon: Yeah! Diving into all that money! He's a rich duck! I heard his voice-actor just died.
20:04 Keith: Ninety-six years old, yeah. R.I.P.
20:07 Eamon: I don't remember his name.
20:09 Kyle: Did he die in a tragic gold-pool accident? *laughter*
20:13 Eamon: He dived in.
20:16 Kyle: He died as he lived! Swimming in gold coins! *laughter*
20:21: Eamon: Not a bad way to go out.
20:22 Keith: So, some guy nails a sign to a tree that says "Don't feed the ducks!" And that's the flashback transition. It dissolves through that sign into another--someone else hammering a sign onto a tree that says: "Deuticher für Dich" which means "Germans for you!" And so we are now back in 1936 in Berlin.
20:44 Eamon: And then this guy in a suit tears the sign down.
20:48 Kyle: To the rousing beat of oom-pa music.
20:49 Ea: Yes. **Ke: Yes!**
20:54 Ke: So this guy, his name is Werner, I think?
20:55 Ky: He's Werner!
20:56 Ke: Yeah, this is Duncan's friend, Werner. **Yeah, Werner.** And so we find out through this flashback that Duncan is a freedom fighter of some sort--
21:02 Ea: Yeah, he's like that guy in Casablanca whose name I forget. So, interesting. *giggles* Nevermind.
21:11 Ky: Cool story, bro!
21:12 Ea: Yeah. *laughter*
21:13 So, while they're in the park, Werner says to Duncan, "Berlin has become dangerous!" And then he looks over his shoulder at the band, who are all wearing lederhosen and have horns and stuff. Wow. It looks really dangerous!
21:31 Ky: They might be spies! You don't know!
21:33 Ke: They could be. I don't know how they could hear, over their oom-pa music.
21:38 Ky: The blare of the tuba?
21:39 Ea: Yeah!
21:40 Ke: After we get acquainted with Werner in the park, Duncan and him head to that same club where Amanda is singing, and I guess Werner is trying to help Duncan get travel papers, for one of Duncan's friends, who we haven't met yet. But, Amanda sees Duncan and they, you know they kiss, and then she wants to dance, and they have a little reconnecting moment. But then there's some ominous guy with a crazy scar looking at her.
22:02 Ky: He's actually the hero of this episode. They were already setting that up from the establishing shot, right? Did I misunderstand?
22:09 Ea: We find out he's a cop and his name is Rutger.
22:12 Ke: Oh, his name is Ru--I didn't catch his name! Ructer? That's a good name! **Ructer.**
22:15 Ky: His name is actually Rutgers New Brunswick! *laughter*
22:19 Ke: Aaah, that's a New Jersey joke, everybody out there. *laughter*
22:22 So, um, Werner is not sure if he can trust Amanda, because he doesn't know her. Mac backs that up, too. He [says] Yeah, no, you can't. At all. She's only out for herself. So then we get to meet the Professor. This is who IMDb says is Dan Castellaneta, voice of Homer Simpson. Absolutely not. This is someone else.
22:43 Ea: He's rifling through papers.
22:45 Ke: Yeah, and him and Mac have an exchange about science. Shall we play this clip? **Ea: Sure.**This is kind of interesting, I suppose. **Ky: Science, yeah!**
22:52 Professor: I always wondered what it would be like to be English.
Duncan: Now I guess you're going to get your chance, professor. Just take the vital ones, they're going to be watching for us.
Professor: The vital part isn't there. It's here. Do you know anything of physics, Herr MacLeod?
Duncan: Oh, just the old-fashioned kind. I guess I left off at alchemy.
Professor: Just a bunch of numbers, to most people. But it is a map we can follow to the heart of the atom. Maybe to the secrets of the universe.
Duncan: Maybe the secret's somewhere else.
Professor: You don't think science knows the answers, do you, Herr MacLeod?
Duncan: I'm not so sure it knows the right questions, Herr Doctor.
23:39 Ke: Hmmm. **Ea: HMM.** Food for thought. Or is it? **Ea: I don't know.** It's kind of a bunch of gobbledygook. Yeah. **Ky: So it's gobbledygook for thought.** So Duncan's not TOO onboard with science, it would seem.
23:41 Ea: No. He left off at alchemy. Heeheehee.
23:43 Ke: Which is NOT science, really. Well, I guess at some point it was science, right?
23:48 Ea: Aaah! **Ke: It's fake, it's not real. It doesn't work.** That's true. **Ky: I agree that it was a thing that people did at some point. Right.
23:57 Ke: We can all agree on that.
24:00 Keith: So, this guy is-- **Kyle: Now that's what I call physics!**
24:04 Ke: So this guy is clearly working on some sort of presumably weapon.
24:08 Ea: Yeah, is he a rocket scientist?
24:10 Ke: Probably, yeah. Back at the club, Amanda exits into the alley, and she's confronted by--what's his name? Rutger?
24:16 Ea: Rutger!
24:16 Ke: Rutger! And she's asking about Henrik, who I think is the guy that was killed. **Right.** Her friend. Rather than answer his questions, she decides she's going to try to seduce him? But then she just kicks him in the nuts and runs away, which is pretty fantastic.
24:31 Ky: I mean, that's always my first play with a scarred German man. I lead with the seduction, but it always ends in ball-kicking.
24:37 Ke: So, back in the professor's room, I suppose, Duncan is burning this guy's research, so no one can find it. **Umhm.** But then some goom--gooms--goons bust in--
24:48 Ea: Some "gooms".
24:49 Ky: And then the Goonies bust in! *laughter*
24:52 Ea: They start doing the truffle-shuffle!
24:54 Ky: Oh yeah.
24:55 Ke: So, these goons bust in and there's a fight...
24:59 Ea: Yeah, karate fight.
25:00 Ke: Not much karate in this one, I don't think, which is... **Yeah.** you know, just straight up punching. **Yup.** Good old American punching. **Ea: That's right. In Germany.**
25:08 Ke: Um, but then Duncan has an amazing one-liner. Where he [says] "Now THAT'S physics!" when he punches somebody. And I--
25:15 Ky: Now that's physics, or "That's what I call physics"?
25:18 Ke: I don't remember. Either way--
25:19 Ky: I was hoping it's "Now that's what I call physics," so we could make "Now that's what I call music Five! The NSYNC edition!" *laughter*
25:26 Ke: So then Amanda shows up and she's--I guess she wants to stay with Mac at the hotel room, because it's not safe for her anymore, either, and Duncan is SO pleased with the joke he makes. He [says] "The room service is terrible!" And he starts laughing, like a lot. And that's it, I guess, because the goons are there.
25:46 Ea: And then Amanda goes in and she [says] "The room service IS terrible." *laughter* Because there are some beaten-up guys on the ground in the room. Maybe they're just asleep.
25:57 Ky: Maybe they are actually servicing the room!
26:00 Ke: So, Werner and Duncan meet back up, and Werner says it is too dangerous to get him travel papers to leave the country right now. So Duncan suggests, let's fly him out.
26:10 Ea: But he needs to get genuine Luftwaffe codes.
26:12 Ke: Yes. He needs the codes so they can fly out of there, so Duncan gives Werner even more money to make this all happen, and so Werner goes off to get these codes.
26:22 Ky: So what's Werner's arc in this entire thing? *laughter*
26:24 Ea: It doesn't make sense.
26:26 Ky: I was not on this journey with them.
26:27 Ea: Nope. Nope. They're at the air-yard, and Werner is there. Does he give Mac the papers?
26:35 Ky: Kind of. But he betrays--I mean, betrayal is afoot.
26:38 Ke: Also, there's a really--I thought it was funny--scene with... the professor doesn't trust the plane?
26:44 Ea: Yeah.
2645 Ke: Which is, I thought, a little odd. He [says] "I don't trust it." I don't--I guess it's because it's old, maybe? **Mmhm.** But Duncan explains to him how air travel works. **Yeah.** And then, he seems confused and then Duncan [says] "It's a kind of physics." Which just made me think of the movie, **together with Eamon: "It's a kind of magic".** This is like the Neil deGrasse Tyson retort to "It's a kind of magic." "It's a kind of physics."
27:07 Ky: It's a kind of physics. **Ke: It also--** Ky: We can make a shirt of that! *laughter*
27:09 Ea: So this is where Werner betrays Mac for reasons?
27:16 Ky: For reas--yeah, it goes way off the rails. You're introduced to him ripping the Nazi propaganda down--
27:23 Ea: He's "Berlin's become an asylum!"
27:26 Ky: Yeah! We're all on board, fuck the Nazis, and he follows that up with--and this is a quote: "I've hurt women before." **Yeah.** **Yeah.** Who is this guy?! *laughter at absurdity*
27:39 Ke: A Nazi! A Nazi piece of shit!
27:40 Ea: Is he just saying all that stuff to get Mac in his confidence?
27:45 Ky: I guess. I guess you were supposed to think he's a mercenary. But even when he asks for more money, the implication to me wasn't that it was for him, I thought it was to bribe people! And to get these codes! Maybe--I guess the implication was that... is supposed to be that this guy just wants Mac's money, but it didn't read that way at the time.
28:06 Ke?: Yeah. Also, if he just wanted Mac's money, he could still help the guy escape. He didn't have to turn him in. I don't--I get the impression that they've built a relationship. Like this isn't their first rodeo together. Has Werner helped other people successfully escape? Or do we think that he's turned them in later? And Duncan hasn't known about it, and this is the first time Duncan is physically there.
28:27 Ky: Ooh, that would be insidious.
28:28 Ea: Mmm. Yeah. Poor, poor character. *laughter*
28:32 Ky: But he's hurt women before, yeah?
28:34 Ea: Yeah.
28:35 Ke: So, a fight breaks out, a bunch of other Nazis show up. Amanda shows up out of nowhere, and, I guess, punches Werner.
28:42 Ea: Yeah, that's where Werner says "I've hurt women before." And he's doing this weird boxing stance, but "Hey, Jack, you're the Master Race!" **Ky: Yeah!**
28:56 Ke: Yeah, so Amanda, I guess, also wants to flee the country now. Because she's in the shit, but there's not room for all three of them in the plane, so Duncan being very chivalrous, says "You fly the plane," so I guess Amanda can fly the plane.
29:07 Ea: Well, and Duncan, they can both fly planes.
29:11 Ke: They're both like James Bond, where any vehicle they know how to operate. Like a forklift--
29:16 Ky: But any coffee machine is forever beyond their reach!
29:18 Ke: Yeah! *laughter* That's how the Wa--
29:21 Ky: They're just not good at making coffee!
29:21 Ke: That's how the Watchers test if you're Immortal or not, they make you use a Cappuccino machine!
29:28 Ky: They [say] "Hey, here's a French Press! Go be a hero!"
29:32 Ke: So, Amanda also of course still has her, I guess, these counterfeit plates that she's got. So she's smuggling them out of the county. So, her and the professor fly away in the plane, Duncan hops in a motorcycle and, I guess, is leading the Nazis--as a distraction, he's getting them out of there.
29:49 Ea: Yeah, he shoots a bunch of them--
29:50 Ky: For the scooter drive-by! **Ea: That's right!**
29:53 Ke: But--so, I was wondering... I think it's a bad idea that the professor and Amanda get in this plane at all. This plan seems compromised, to me. Totally.
30:00 Ky: If they needed the Luftwaffe codes, why did they have any reason to think that those were real codes? Why--**Ke: They're maybe not--** aren't they just going to be shot down? **Ea: Yeah.** Maybe not--
30:07 Ke: So, they're maybe not real codes, but even if they ARE, this--their whole jig is up! Werner can just radio in, or just use a telephone! These are modern times! He can just call and [say] "The plane that just left, you'll track them on your radar. Ask for their codes. It's not them. Shoot them down!" **Right.** I don't know. It seems they'd actually--
30:28 Ky: Did they have radar at this point?
30:30 Ke: Ooh. Actually, good question....
30:32 Ea: I don't know. **Ke: Hmm.**
30:34 Ky: Either way, they apparently needed these codes to take off.
30:34 Ke: Who do they have to give the code--yeah, exactly. They have to give the codes to somebody.
30:38 Ky: There must have been some kind of air traffic tower, or something, but... someone.
30:41 Ke: I don't know. This still doesn't seem very safe. It seems like this plan is also a bust. **Yup.** *laughter* Uh--
30:47 Ea: But Mac does shoot a lot of Nazis before he escapes on the motorcycle. Ala--
30:52 Ky: I'm on board with that.
30:54 Ea: Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Also I want to say, he's driving away on the motorcycle, down a dirt path. And [he] veers off onto the road. And apparently, I read on a YouTube comment while watching this episode--I watched this episode on YouTube, so who knows if this is accurate, but somebody said that that wasn't planned--**Ke: Really?!** --he fell off the road, and they still kept it. **Ke: WOW!** **Ky: What?** I don't know. **Ke: We'll have to look into that, that's crazy.** He veers off, and it looks kind of strange, it looks like he's going off-road, ATV-style, or something.
31:30 🎶 Princes of the Universe! 🎶
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32:04 🎶 Princes of the Universe! 🎶
32:06 Ke: Back in the present, Mac is telling Amanda about the Watchers, because he's worried that these goons that are after her are probably Watchers. Or Hunters, I guess, as it would be. **Ea: Right.** So he's telling her about the tattoos, and all that sort of stuff, and then it gets all sexy-time. She [asks], oh where are the tattoos or whatever, and then they start undressing each other, and it's "Oh, right here. How about here?" and then they're down each other's pants and it's--
32:30 Ea: The Bone Zone. Oh, that was last week's episode. **Ke: Yeah, right!**
32:32 Ky: The Bone Zone! And they have super-wet kissing sounds-- *laughter* --during this. I [felt] Ugh, they need fire your foley guy?
32:32 Ke: And here we are talking again about how we're grossed out by kissing. **Yeah.** *wryly* We are twelve.
32:49 Ke: So the next morning it's the afterglow in bed. They're eating a bunch of fruit, and drinking wine. I guess it's not the next morning. It's just later that afternoon.
32:58 Ea: Yeah, I don't know.
33:00 Ke: Daysex. *giggles* Sorry.
33:02 Ky: That's called "Afternoon Delight", if the song is to be believed.
33:06 Ke: It's funny, Tess died just a couple of episodes ago. Duncan has had two flings in three episodes. **Yep.** **Ky: With Immortals.** With--yes.
33:15 Ky: He loves the--he likes the older ladies. *laughter*
33:19 Ke: So Duncan tells Amanda she's the most beautiful woman in history, and she [asks] "Do you really think that?" And there's a great smash cut just to a punching bag, I thought that was pretty...
33:29 Ea: Well the other thing is he calls her the most beautiful woman in history after calling her deceitful and--
33:34 Ky: Deceitful and scheming!
33:35 Ea: Yeah! And she [asks] "Do you really think I'm beautiful?" It's like, wait a minute, what about all those other words?
33:41 Ky: You know what this is? Mac's a pick-up artist. It's all about negging. **Ea: Oh, you're right.** You have to insult them so they're hungry for your approval, if you're a total douchebag. They do the same with Annie Devlin! "Hey, I think you're a sociopathic terrorist! You're also pretty!" *laughter*
34:01 Ea: "I brought some wine!" That was not wine, that was whisky.
34:03 Ke: So we're in the dojo, and Richie approaches Duncan. And we should play this clip, because it's pretty funny. Richie's asking all about Duncan's sex life!
34:14 Richie: Mac, hey.
Duncan: Hey. How you doing?
Richie: Good. Oh, I slept like a log last night. How about you? You sleep okay?
Duncan: Yeah. Fine.
Richie: Good, good. That's really good, see, 'cause I was afraid you might be a little, uh... tied up.
Dunca: Tied up...
Richie: Yeah. Exactly. I mean, you know, I've been thinking, Mac. I mean, we're both men of the world here. You make your own decisions. Who you choose to sleep with--that's entirely your business.
Duncan: I used to think so.
Richie: Mac, don't get me wrong. I mean, she is a very, very fine-looking woman, extremely hot. Purely on a level of physical attraction, one to ten, she's... what do you say? Off the scale. I mean, I'd probably even be tempted myself. In theory, of course. You see, Mac, I'm not quite sure how to say this to you--
Duncan: Richie, I understand what you're saying. But frankly, it's none of your business.
Richie: I know, but see, Mac, friends look out for each other. She's a crook. She's setting you up for something.
Duncan: And I thought she wanted me for my mind.
35:09 Ke: So maybe this is just Richie's scheme. He gets off on sleeping with whoever Duncan is sleeping with. **Ea: It might be true!** He was after Tess, and now he's "I have to move in on this Amanda-lady."
35:20 Ea: That's right. Richie's really giving Mac a hard time.
35:22 Ke: Yeah. Also, at this point I was [saying] "Oh, good! Richie's back in this episode!" but what's he doing?
35:27 Ky: Kind of--
35:39 Ke: There's no reason for him to be in this episode, really. **Nope.** He trains in the beginning. We get this scene... is this the last we see of Richie? **Ea: Uh, no.**
35:38 Ky: I think it is. Oh wait, no he's--
35:39 Ea: He comes back, but...
35:41 Ky: He does come back.
35:42 Ea: Oh yeah. But, so, they're going up to Mac's bachelor pad, and then we see Amanda walk into the shittiest jeweler I've ever seen.
35:52 Ke: This is the... I don't know if it was intentionally made to look this shitty, but I [thought] this is the WORST set dressing I've ever seen on this show. **Yeah.** Half the shelves are empty. The walls are dir--this just looks like trash. It's awful.
36:06 Ky: It's supposed to be a pawn-shop? **Yeah, I don't know--**
36:08 Ke: It's supposed to be a--the sign says it's an engraving store. Because there're random trophies around, but they didn't have enough to make it look good? I took note; in the background there's a horse trophy, there's a hockey player, then there's just weird little framed pictures on the wall, just like, they look like stock photos of flowers. It's really, really weird.
36:30 Ky: And there's a bunch of trophies that just say *1 Stunner on them. *laughter*
36:35 Ke: So, Amanda's there and she goes over to this guy Harry, because it's Harry's Engraving, and she [says] "I have a proposition for you." **Oooh!** Something's afoot!
36:43 Ea: So then Mac and Richie find Amanda to be gone, and then Mac [says] "Aw, and she has my credit cards."
36:49 Ke: Right! I don't know--I guess--I don't know how he assumed that, right away. That he just knows Amanda. And also she snuck out that, I guess, the rooftop entrance **Ea: The skylight? Yeah.** --the crazy--**Ky: They have to--**--seal it off!
37:01 Ky: He needs a door. Or a lock. **Ea: Yeah, it's just open.** Or like some kind of trap-thing that turns it into a big slide? **Yeah!** *laughter*
37:09 Ke: Amanda is at Harry's, scheming with him. And Mac shows up. HOW? He says that he figured it out based on the receipts? **Ea: Uh-huh.** **Ky: That's--yeah.** And it's like wait a minute! **Ky: What?!** What? No--
37:24 Ky: So she's bought things from here?
37:25 Ke: And already there's a record of it, and I'd have to imagine, this is 1993 or 4, I think. **Ea: Yeah.** How much are we into digital credit card machines at this point? One. And something tells me this guy Harry does not have one, he's still doing it old-school, with the slider-thing? **Ea: Yeah.** So, there isn't--I don't think there's a record of these credit card sales, at all.
37:47 Ea: Nope, it's pretty dumb.
37:50 Ke: It is VERY dumb. *laughter* Aaah, so silly! This is one of those--another one of those detective elements in this show that's just really half-baked. How did he get there? Eh, shrug. He just does it.
38:00 Ea: So he's confronting Amanda. Meanwhile, our goons show up.
38:06 Ke: Don Davis is back! Colonel Briggs! I guess he's been here before. He's staked out Harry's before, because he comes right over. He knows Harry. **Yeah.** And I guess they've uncovered that Amanda has some scheme she's been running with engravers or whatever, so before she got to town, I guess they staked out all these engraving shops or whatever. **Mmhm.** So, they're in on this.
38:29 Ea: And Harry called to tell that she was there. **Ke: Right.** So they have some arrangement.
38:33 Ky: First Werner, then Harry. How will we ever recover from this? **Ea: Right!** This level of betrayal.
38:38 Ke: So, then Colonel Briggs spots Mac on the CCTV feed or whatever, the security camera footage? And he's "That's who I want!" and it's--Wh? Who? WHY?! I guess because he tackled him earlier, but **Ea: He beat them up!** Yeah! But he's after Mac now, too. **Ea: Mmhm.**
38:53 Ky: For a guy who--we're about to find out he's an FBI agent. Or we've already found that out. **Ea/Ke: Yeah.** But--but you didn't know that at the time when he fucking SHOT him! You think he'd announce "Hey, FBI!"
39:04 Ea: Yeah!
39:05 Ke: Also, no--we w--I'm covering what this plots ends up being is Amanda is trying to change the dates on these plates--
39:14 Ea: Which were made in Germany for an American $100 bill, which I don't get.
39:17 Ke: I was trying to figure that out, because I'm trying to unpack this whole plot. I was trying to figure out: Were these MADE in Germany? Or did they smuggle them out of America, get them to her, and now she wants to take them b--I don't know. It seems very complicated.
39:30 Ky: I think they were smuggled... made in the United States, smuggled to Germany. Also, most counterfeit American currency is used abroad, is my understanding. That's where--because U.S. currency gets used so many places, but it's a lot easier to pass it off where people are less familiar with spotting fakes. *hmms moment of silence* Not interesting! *laughter*
39:53 Ke: So we find out that this whole thing is about these counterfeit bills, so I guess Colonel Briggs, that's his assignment: he's the counterfeit guy for the FBI. And the stakes seem--I mean, counterfeiting is bad, but THEY SHOT Duncan. That seems SO out of whack!
40:09 Ky: He's trying to steal them.
40:10 Ea: Yeah, he's trying to--he's being a bad guy.
40:14 Ke: Well yeah, he is a bad guy. But no, it's the partner that shoots him. **Ea: Right.** And is the partner a bad guy, too? We don't know.
40:20 Ea: They're in cahoots.
40:21 Ke: Oh yeah, definitely. Also, I don't think the FBI works the counterfeit beat. That's the Secret Service. So these guys are just baddies.
40:30 Ea: Mmm. Interesting. Also--**Ky: They're going rogue!** They're going rogue. Also, arc, they're going Commando! They also refer to themselves as cops, a lot. And I [wonder], are FBI agents cops? No?
40:43 Ke: I don't know. Does anyone work for the FBI out there? I don't know if you refer to yourself as a cop.
40:47 Ea: I feel like you don't, but I don't know. I actually have no idea.
40:51 Ke: You'll never know!
40:52 Ea: No! *laughter* **Ke: But a-- ** **Ky: I'm a cop, you idiots?** **I'm a cop Don Kimball!** *laughter*
40:58 Ea?: Who is your daddy, and what does he do. Do-de-do-de-dum! *laughter* Well, Mac and Amanda sneak out to the alley, and they beat up this guy's partner. **Right.** And then later we find out th--
41:10 Ke: Well I guess Duncan checks the guy's ID, and f--well, first he checks his wrist to see if he's a Watcher--**Ea: And he's not.** --and he's not, and then he looks at his ID and he finds out he's an FBI agent, so then he's "Amanda!"
41:22 Ea: This is where we finally figure it out.
41:24 Ke: and then he's "Amanda, what did you do?"
41:25 Ea: And he's scolding her. *chuckles*
41:28 Ke: So they run off, but Amanda keeps insisting "Oh, I don't know what they want."
41:32 Ky: Well it's kind of interesting because Duncan, for this well-guarded secret that's persisted for thousands of years of watching Immortals, he is all about spilling those beans to everybody. *laughter*
41:44 Ke: So they're back--
41:45 Ky: Hey, secret society, secret society? You want to hear about it? *laughter*
41:48 Ke: So they're back in Duncan's loft and he's "Oh, if it's not about the diamonds, what is it about?" And then Colonel Briggs is waiting for them. **Yup.** Up in the loft, and he's "I can tell you all about it." This is where we find out the whole deal. So he also says "I could have gotten a warrant, but I didn't. Because the paperwork is too messy." Kyle, you can explain how much messier the paperwork would be without the warrant.
42:12 Ky: I think it would be worse, but he's also not trying to arrest them. His goal is to break the law, so what's the point?
42:17 Ke: I suppose...
42:18 Ky: His goal is to go in there and shoot them. I don't think you get a warrant for that. "Excuse me. Excuse me, magistrate-judge. Can I please have a warrant to go in and execute some people wholesale? No? Why not? I have probable cause!" *laughter*
42:34 Ke: This guy's scheme in general, though, I don't think I'm on board with. He killed his own partner... That's throwing some red flags up all over the place. Also, he claims that he has a video tape showing Duncan kill the guy. **Ky??: Well just like Bu-- (Bucky, Civil War?)**
42:49 Ea: I have a video tape of you at the scene before this guy is dead.
42:43 Ke: Is that the idea? That he's just as the scene?
42:55 Ky: That's the idea.
42:57 Ea: But it's... really? He doesn't have a--that seems so flimsy.
43:02 Ke: Yeah, I don't know, the guy--the position this guy's in, I don't know. It seems like he could just take people's money a lot, and not have to deal with stealing the pla--why do the forging himself? Also it's l--
43:12 Ky: Well, he might just be trying to sell the plates. **Ke: AAAAaaaaah!**Ea: That's a good point.**Ke: He's got the connections--** He might have those connections, and I don't know, how much would a genuine plate be worth? He might be able to get seven figures out of that. I don't know. Also, I have to imagine that more has changed in a hundred-dollar bill than the date, since then. **Ke/Ea: Yes. That's it.** I just have to venture a guess that Ben Franklin's face got a little wider, or something. That you can't just white out a number and go on.
43:42 Ea: Not like my heart which will go on.
43:43 Ke: Why do we think Colonel Briggs k--
43:45 Ky: Where ever you are, near, far... Doesn't matter. **Yeah, that's right!** *laughter*
43:49 Ke: Why do we think Colonel Briggs killed his partner? **That is a great question!** Why at this point, because Kyle you mentioned earlier you think the partner's a bad guy, too. Maybe, but if they were, is this just Don Davis being greedy and wanting all the money to himself, but they have not gotten their--I could see him shooting his partner after he gets the plates, "I got it now, I don't need your help anymore," but why kill him at this point? I don't know what he's gaining from doing this right now.
44:17 Ky: Because he wants to frame them. That's part of the plan. Now. That... I guess that's why he kills him then, as opposed to later. **Mmmaybe.** And I guess he knows where they are, now. He thinks he's got them dead to rights. I agree it's premature.
44:27 Ke: I guess. But he could have just come up to the loft and shot them. It's stupid!
44:32 Ky: Going off half-cocked. *laughter*
44:34 Ea: Doesn't make sense.
44:35 Ke: Yep!
44:36 Ea: But--so Mac agrees to do an exchange of the plate and the tape at some bridge, under some bridge, and then Don S. Davis walks UP the skylight, and Mac [says] "I have to get that thing sealed." *laughter*
44:52 Ke: Right! So I don't know, should that be the question of the week? What the hell is up those stairs? **Ea: Who knows? What's up there, guys?**
44:58 Ky: The Shadow knows! **Ke/Ea: Oooh!**
45:01 Ke: Directed by Russell Mulcahy, good movie! **Ea: Alec Baldwin. A bald win for Baldwin.**
45:09 Ke: Also, this is something really funny. So Briggs exits up those stairs, but then if you just look closely at the video, you can just see the shadow of his legs up there, kind of pacing back and forth. Because he's clearly just waiting at the top of the set for the scene to end, which I thought was pretty good.
45:25 Ea: Well I like that immediately after that--
45:28 Ky: That's funny.
45:30 Ea: Duncan goes to call...Duncan goes to his phone and calls it, and somebody answers and it's Richie, and he's "Hey, Richie." And I'm "Where is he calling? Is he calling downstairs?" **Ke: Right! Or maybe Richie's pad? His new pad that we haven't seen?** I don't know...
45:46 Ky: Who're you going to call? Richie Ryan! **Yeah!** *laughter*
45:48 Ke: Mac's got some scheme, and they're maybe going to double-cross Briggs. But we're not sure what's going on, I don't think? **Ea: No!** Is that the idea?
45:47 Ea: So, we're at the bridge, Mac and Amanda are there, and Briggs is there in his car. And he comes out. They exchange the plate and the original tape. He [asks] "Is this the original?" and the guy's "Yes." And I'm "Why would you believe him?"
46:09 Ky: He doesn't say "Are--" he doesn't say "And there are no copies?" Well--! *laughter*
46:17 Ea: You didn't ask if there are any copies!
46:18 Ke: They exchange, but then Briggs double-crosses them and he [says] "No one's ever going to see you guys again!" **Yup!** And he shoots them both in the back, and they fall in the river.
46:28 Ea: Yup. And he [says] "More random violence." *laughter*
46:31 Ke: Yeah, again this does not seem... I don't know if this seems like a good plan or not. Just to let them be in the river. I don't know.
46:37 No, it doesn't seem like a good plan.
46:40 Ky: It's a bad plan. I think that's exactly what it is. Just going to go ahead and say it.
46:46 Ea?: Well, whose gun is he shooting them with? *laughter*
46:51 Ky: Why go through this whole scheme of blackmailing them if your plan is just to shoot them anyway?
46:54 Ke/Ea: Yup! Yeah, right, exactly!
46:56 Ky: I guess he didn't know the exact location of the plates, but--**Ea: Right.**
47:00 Ke: Don Davis walks away, Richie--excuse me. Amanda and Duncan wash up on the shore, and Richie helps them out, I guess, or whatever. He emerges from the bushes with the video tape, and it turns out that Richie video-taped Don Davis shooting Duncan and Amanda.
47:14 Ea: How does this help them?!
47:16 Ke: Well I guess the--
47:17 Ea: There's footage of them being SHOT in the back, and they fall in the river, and then--but they're still alive!
47:24 Ke: Well, they all High-Five, which is amazing. I love that.
47:27 Ky: It's the best! The best!
47:30 Ke: We did it! Yeah, I don't really--
47:32 Ky: YAY! What did we do? I don't know!** *whooping and carrying on*
47:34 Ke: I don't really get--because there would be an investigation, a big investigation, into who those bodies were, and I think there's a lot of clues as to who those people might be. Because they'd probably ask Harry what's going on... I would--I mean, who knows what kind of paper-trail Don Davis left behind. Like with the FBI. If he has any sort of notes saying he was investigating Amanda, or where she was, or what she was doing, that's all going to get uncovered, and they're going to find Duncan and Amanda. It's... I don't know. It's not a good plan!
48:03 Ea: No!
48:04 Ke: But on the news later when they show the clip they're just "Two unidentified bodies were shot--" Okay, no questions!
48:09 Ea: But also they don't have the bodies. The bodies never wash up anywhere...
48:15 Ke: Also, they say they're anonymous, [but] they'd get that info out of General Briggs, wouldn't they? Wouldn't they question the shit out of him, and eventually he would be "Oh, I shot this woman Amanda," but at some poi--
48:25 Ky: Why would he do that? Why would he say that?
48:27 Ke: Well, they have him on video shooting people. They've got him. **Ea: Right.** So, I mean at that point, why wouldn't he just say who he shot?
48:35 Ky: Maybe after extended months of negotiations *laughter* you might reveal that information in order to get a better deal? **Hmm!** Also, he interrogates people, assumably for a living as an FBI agent, so he should know not to talk to the police.
48:47 Ea: Right. Or incriminate himself. **True!**
48:50 Ky: Yeah, that would be a bad--but then again we're learning time and time again that he is bad at planning ahead--**Yeah.** So maybe he does just go "Oh yeah, that's me."
49:00 Ke: I feel like at some point they're going to find who these people are. At least from Harry. He's got the scoop.
49:04 Ea: They could find the--
49:07 Ky: But Harry's a forger. He's not going to dime them out. *laughter*
49:09 Ke: Harry ain't no snitch!
49:11 Ea: But if you had this tape of a guy shooting two people, but you never find two bodies, and two people are never reported dead or missing, has a crime been committed?
49:21 Ky: Yeah. I mean, if you shot two people--
49:24 Ea: But there's no evidence that a crime was actually committed.
49:27 Ky: If you shoot two homeless people and then feed their bodies to pigs on a pig farm, you're still a murderer. And if somebody can prove that you shot them, you're still guilty of it. I don't know, having a tape of it. Even if they don't have proof of where the body is--
49:42 Ke: I think the tape is enough evidence.
49:43 Ea: --but there's no proof that anybody was shot aside from this tape--
49:47 Ky: "Aside from a video tape of it?!" *laughter* **Yeah, but like--** Aside from a video tape of a man doing--
49:56 🎶 Princes of the Universe! 🎶
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50:49 Ea: That does come with two free pens. Is that--
50:51 Ke: One free pen. Yes. So, chronicle your journeys and adventures--**Astutely!**--astutely with the daily organizer!
51:00 🎶 Princes of the Universe! 🎶
51:04 Ke: So, Richie thinks what Amanda did was really brave. *laughter* Which I guess is just getting shot, ah, I don't know what he's talking about, necessarily. The theft, the lying, whatever, but--**Yeah.** Richie's, of course, smitten with Amanda. I guess Richie leaves Amanda and Mac alone to mack it all night long. **That's right!** Duncan talks about how they'll always have Paris, London, Rome, and... **with Ea:Tulsa!** And I would love to know the adventures they had in Tulsa!
51:31 Ea: Yeah!
52:32 Ky: They were very boring. *laughter* They just want to play house for seventy or eighty years, you know?
51:39 Ke: So, let's hear from Bill Panzer and David Abramowitz on the filming of the episode "The Return of Amanda"!
David: "The Return of Amanda." No fight scenes. No martial arts. No sword-play. No bad Immortal. No Quickening. But somehow, the show really worked.
Bill: In The Return of Amanda, we're dealing with the actress Elizabeth Gracen, who was absolutely wonderful. But on occasion is a little bit flaky! So, she comes into our office and she's--because she has a question; she's wearing a small little nose-ring on her nose, and she'd like to keep it and she wants to know if we can write it in for the part, and if it would be okay on camera. And what she doesn't tell us is that she's cut off all her hair, and she's got really two inch--her entire hair is maybe two inches long, and it's completely white! And I said "Elizabeth! Were you going to tell us about this, or not?!" She'd do things like that on occasion, just to--I think she liked keeping us off balance.
David: Enormous style. The style starts from the minute you see the beginning of the period recreation by Steve Geaghan 'til you watch Adrian walk into a nightclub in pre-WWII Germany in a tuxedo, looking better than Cary Grant, with every bit as much style and panache, and suddenly you forget the loudish, Scottish warrior that we've always loved. The problems of doing Germany in Vancouver were not underestimated by our European partners. The Germans said: "No swastikas." So, Steve came up with the idea of "Let's use the Imperial German Eagle. It's got the same kind of menace and vaguely authoritarian thing," and it worked great. At the end of the day, the show's called "Amanda." And what can you say about Elizabeth Gracen? What can you say about the character of Amanda? Beautiful. Deceitful. Funny. Sexy. Everything a man would want.
53:38 Ke: So, in the behind-the-scenes footage, there, they talked about that they weren't allowed to use swastikas because the German backers didn't want that. And I was curious. When I was watching this episode, I remember a lot of nineties TV never having swastikas. And was that a rule, or just a tradition people followed? I feel like I'm starting to see it on television, now.
54:00 Ea: Well, in Germany I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to--**Ke: use a swastika?**--I know we have a German listener, so maybe they could comment on this. I don't think you're allowed to have swastikas and stuff over there.
54:14 Ke: Right. I just noticed that. There's always--I don't know, in a lot of early nineties and eighties TV it'll be a red banner with a circle in it, and maybe a swastika lookalike-thing? And I don't know if it's just because of overseas sales that they don't want to use a swastika, or what the deal is.
54:30 Ky: That is-- that is really common. You'll see a lightning bolt, or an SS Symbol, or they'll use related symbols that aren't the swastika. **Right.**
54:40 Ke: It's interesting. So, one: I thought there was a very funny Watcher Chronicle for this episode. This is under Amanda's, I guess, Chronicle. It says: "Amanda's Watcher needs to be reassigned or he will have a mental and physical breakdown, because he's obsessed with Amanda. They will reassign a woman to her, next." *laughter*
54:58 Ea: Okay.
54:59 Ky: What?! What the fu--
55:00 Ke: I guess everyone's getting obsessed with Amanda. They got the fever.
55:04 Ea: The fever! I want to ask you guys a question about this episode. This is "The Return of Amanda". This is Amanda's triumphant return. She doesn't have much to do in this episode. I don't... think.
55:19 Ky: Yeah, but she's the source of all the action in it.
55:21 Ea: That's true.
55:22 Ky: She's the one who's moving the plates both in the past and in the future.
55:25 Ke: Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the plot of this episode, but I think it comes out... the episode as a whole comes out pretty okay, mostly because of Elizabeth Gracen. She is REALLY good and the two of them have such great chemistry, I think that elevates what otherwise--if this was cast with someone else, this I think would be kind of a snooze-fest. **Yeah.** Because most of the plot--it's just not that exciting. **Yeah.** And yeah, there's no Immortal conflict. There's no sword-fight, other than the flashback. I wonder, actually, is that the reason they put that whole flashback in there? They were "Oh, there's no Immortal stuff. Let's--"
56:00 Ky: The flashback's is also [about] half the episode, though. It's a very long flashback. And it's interesting.
56:04 Ea: It was extremely long. I could have done without the FBI stuff. What if they just took that out of the episode?
56:12 Ke: Yeah, maybe have Duncan be the one to uncover the thing. Like he could be the source of the conflict. Like in their trust issues and all that stuff.
56:20 Ky: I think the idea of her actually being chased by the--I think it's more interesting if she's being chased by real cops.**Ea: Yeah.**
56:26 Ke: Why did the cops also have to be bad? Argh!
56:31 Ky: Yeah, if she was--If there was an actual decision about saving her versus breaking the law, that would have been more exciting than "Obviously you stand by her against a bunch of renegade Secret Service agents." You obviously do that. As opposed to some honest mopes who are actually doing their job.
56:48 Ke: Well, we have a pretty good question of the week, this week, that was actually submitted by one of our listeners! So, a big thanks to KenG for submitting this question. And I w--this has come up before, but it's appropriate because it happened in this episode. "What do you think happens to the bullets in Immortals when they get shot?" Ooooh!
57:08 Ea: Interesting! So like if a bull-- 57:09 Ky: They get pushed out. *laughter* **There you go!**
57:14 Ke: AAAAND solved.
57:15 Ky: I feel pretty good about that. **Ea: Yeah.** I think that's the one that makes the most sense, because otherwise do they just stay in there for a really long time? **Maybe!** **Right, so it's like--** Duncan gets shot--Duncan gets shot a lot. Can he just not FLY in the 21st Century? *laughterbabble*
57:29 Ea: When he goes through a metal detector? That's really funny. And then you have to worry about the Tony Stark factor, where the shrapnel could be inching its way towards your heart, and you have to have a robo-heart. **Ke: TSF.** **Ky: Get th--** Tony Stark Factor!
57;44 Ky: But Tony Stark is not Immortal.** That's true. **Ky: So you have an advantage. It's like your heart's its own reactor.** That's right!
57:51 Ke: So anyway, make sure to write us at firstname.lastname@example.org, or comment on our Facebook page. We'll be posting this question later in the week, and you can comment in the comment section on our Facebook page! The question is: What happens to bullets when Immortals get shot? Where do the bullets go?
58:09 Ke: So we have learned a lot of lessons from this, this episode, The Return of Amanda.
58:13 🎶Fighting Immortals will give you a Mac-attack-ak-ak-ak-ak-ak, you oughta know by now... 🎶You oughta know by now... 🎶
58:22 Ke: So, what have we learned this week from Mac, guys?
58:24 Ky: The perfect way for a plan involving getting shot to come together is with a high five!
58:30 Ea: That's right!
58:31 Ky: You have to seal your success with a high five. It's how champions do it.
58:34 Ea: I learned that you're not supposed to feed the ducts. *laughter*
58:42 Ky: I mean, that's important. **Ea: It is.** You can't feed those ducts. **No.**
58:45 Duncan: We should do this more often!
58:46 Ke: Well, Richie has also taught us some things we should don't do.
58:51 Chorus: "What you DON'T do, d-do-do-d-d-do!"
58:54 Ke: What've we learned from Richie?
58:56 Ky: What you should not do is try to increase your stamina and girth by training with Duncan. **Yeah!** *laughter* **That's right!**
59:05 Ea: Because you'll only last a few more seconds. Although I guess--
59:07 Ke: But, it'll come!
59:08 Ea: Yeah, it'll come. **Ky: It'll come!** **Ke: It'll come!** I've learned from Richie that "It'll come!"
59:13 Ke: Yup, that sums it ALL up.
59:15 Duncan: What's the matter with you? In all this time that you've been with me, haven't you learnt anything yet?!
59:20 Ke: Do we have any final thoughts on this episode, guys?
59:22 Ea: It was good. I'm glad to see Elizabeth Gracen back.
59:23 Ky: And that was a real high-quality flashback. I think this would be in my top tier, were it not for the padding. And if the police--the modern day police plot was better.
59:35 Ke: For me, this show hasn't fooled around with the notion of doing an entirely flashback episode. For me, that's what this episode should have been; is it could have just opened in the past--
59:47 Ky: But then she's not returning.
59:49 Ea: That's true.
59:50 Ke: I suppose not! *laughter* They could have just changed the title!
59:55 Ky: This episode's just called "The World War II of Amanda!" *laughter*
59:59 Ke: Well, it could have been called whatever, but... literally. Whatever. Shrug.
1:00:02 Ky: "A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far, Far Away Amanda"?
1:00:05 Ke: I find that the World War II plot of this episode is more compelling, there's multiple plots, like Mac is trying to get the guy out. Amanda's got this weird thing she's doing as usual, like scheming and stuff. It's a captivating setting for a story, and I just feel that this would be a great story to tell, all in flashback. And just skip the present-stuff. Maybe just put a couple of inter-social scenes in the present, just to kind of get the action going. Like "Remember the time--blblblblbloo" Those sort of things.
1:00:28 Ea: They could have done a Highlander/Casablanca thing, not to go back to that. But there is a similar vibe.
1:00:43 Ke: Yeah, definitely.
1:00:44 Ea: And he could have had a Duncan and Elizabeth Gracen hill-of-beans-type interaction. Or something.
1:00:51 Ke: Yeah. It could've all been in black and white, which I think they do in a later episode, down the road. I think there's a World War II episode that's all in black and white, which is pretty cool.
1:00:59 Ea: That would be cool!
1:01:00 Ke: So, anyway, but all in all a pretty good episode! I'm glad we watched it!
1:01:05 Ea: MacLeodsablanca.
1:01:06 Ke: There you go! So! **Ky: Oh, oh!** **Ea: Yeah.**
1:01:11 Ke: So, make sure to join us next week! Next week's episode is episode 8;
1:01:16 Ea: "Revenge of the Swooooord!" **Ke: We have been your--
1:01:18 Ky: Revenge of the Sith?
1:01:20 Ea: Revenge of the Sith! *laughter* The Return of the Revenge of Amanda!
1:01:27 Ke: We have been your Rewatchers! I'm Keith! **This is Kyle!** **Eamon!** Bye!** Bye-bye! **Soi!